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How to start with mystical

Postby HotShot on Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:32 pm

I've been meaning to post this for a year now, so here it goes. Despite a number of people claiming success with the mystical strategy now, there still seems to be some disbelief that it's possible to start with mystical and still do well. This table shows why.

Code: Select all
100/10 +50 defense, 1m simulations

      LS+1T+4P  LS+2T   4T     5T
      -------- ------ ------ ------
base   0.0636  0.1057 0.1134 0.1129
hott   0.1385  0.1886 0.2004 0.2015
fairy  0.7220  0.7422 0.7656 0.7713
h+f    0.8036  0.8162 0.8125 0.8184


These are dragon kill probabilities. As you can see with the blood sword, LS+2T is almost identical to having 4 or 5 thieving uses and no light shield. What is even more interesting is that LS+1T+4P does almost as well. More on that later.

But does this mean you need to get a blood sword?
No, not strictly. It is possible to get by with Nira's Teeth, but I am averse to it myself. Here are the same numbers with 40/10 +50 defense.

Code: Select all
      LS+1T+4P  LS+2T   4T     5T
      -------- ------ ------ ------
base   0.0037  0.0105 0.0150 0.0222
hott   0.0131  0.0270 0.0328 0.0530
fairy  0.2990  0.3452 0.3351 0.5233
h+f    0.4007  0.4426 0.4025 0.6004


Again, you have a fair shot with a fairy, about as good as if you have 4T uses. I wouldn't risk it, but I know some people try killing the dragon with Nira's Teeth and 4Ts, so it's not much different.

The hardest part about starting with mystical isn't killing the first dragon. Just get a big weapon and you're fine. The harder task is staying competitive in the inital run up to 12 without really being able to attack players a level above. You have to stick to same level or level below kill. If you're lucky, you may get light shield at level 9 or so and can use that. But generally, you will have to get your kills without the use of skills in that first run up.

When do you switch to thieving?
If you start with mystical, you have to commit to sticking with it up to 12 M points. It makes no sense to switch to thieving before then. The dragon kill probabilities are much lower with, say 3 Ts and no lightshield. That being said, you will almost surely get light shield by level 12, and you will have plenty of time at 12 to see the dark cloak tavern.

Lastly, it is my style to win by leveling up as fast as possible, not by worrying about the dragon, which is highly random anyways. This is where wizarding really shines and why I find it to be a better strategy. It is very possible to get 16Ms in the first run up to the dragon and then switch to thieving. This will give you LS+1T+4P for the kill (which is enough for the dragon), and then on your second run up, you can shatter+T campers, GIFT to get more than one kill, and rob the bank. Not only that but you also don't have to worry about seeing the DCT at an opportune moment to get light shield for the second dragon. In fact, if you follow this, you may only need to see the DCT 3 times: mystical to level 12, thieving through the second dragon, mystical to 32M, then thieving to the end.
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Re: How to start with mystical

Postby tikel on Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:59 am

HotShot wrote:I've been meaning to post this for a year now, so here it goes. Despite a number of people claiming success with the mystical strategy now, there still seems to be some disbelief that it's possible to start with mystical and still do well. This table shows why.

Code: Select all
100/10 +50 defense, 1m simulations

      LS+1T+4P  LS+2T   4T     5T
      -------- ------ ------ ------
base   0.0636  0.1057 0.1134 0.1129
hott   0.1385  0.1886 0.2004 0.2015
fairy  0.7220  0.7422 0.7656 0.7713
h+f    0.8036  0.8162 0.8125 0.8184


These are dragon kill probabilities. As you can see with the blood sword, LS+2T is almost identical to having 4 or 5 thieving uses and no light shield. What is even more interesting is that LS+1T+4P does almost as well. More on that later.

But does this mean you need to get a blood sword?
No, not strictly. It is possible to get by with Nira's Teeth, but I am averse to it myself. Here are the same numbers with 40/10 +50 defense.

Code: Select all
      LS+1T+4P  LS+2T   4T     5T
      -------- ------ ------ ------
base   0.0037  0.0105 0.0150 0.0222
hott   0.0131  0.0270 0.0328 0.0530
fairy  0.2990  0.3452 0.3351 0.5233
h+f    0.4007  0.4426 0.4025 0.6004


Again, you have a fair shot with a fairy, about as good as if you have 4T uses. I wouldn't risk it, but I know some people try killing the dragon with Nira's Teeth and 4Ts, so it's not much different.

The hardest part about starting with mystical isn't killing the first dragon. Just get a big weapon and you're fine. The harder task is staying competitive in the inital run up to 12 without really being able to attack players a level above. You have to stick to same level or level below kill. If you're lucky, you may get light shield at level 9 or so and can use that. But generally, you will have to get your kills without the use of skills in that first run up.

When do you switch to thieving?
If you start with mystical, you have to commit to sticking with it up to 12 M points. It makes no sense to switch to thieving before then. The dragon kill probabilities are much lower with, say 3 Ts and no lightshield. That being said, you will almost surely get light shield by level 12, and you will have plenty of time at 12 to see the dark cloak tavern.


Lastly, it is my style to win by leveling up as fast as possible, not by worrying about the dragon, which is highly random anyways. This is where wizarding really shines and why I find it to be a better strategy. It is very possible to get 16Ms in the first run up to the dragon and then switch to thieving. This will give you LS+1T+4P for the kill (which is enough for the dragon), and then on your second run up, you can shatter+T campers, GIFT to get more than one kill, and rob the bank. Not only that but you also don't have to worry about seeing the DCT at an opportune moment to get light shield for the second dragon. In fact, if you follow this, you may only need to see the DCT 3 times: mystical to level 12, thieving through the second dragon, mystical to 32M, then thieving to the end.


excellent work HotShot, you can bet I will cite you in the future for this. :)!
as for bold part I tried that first time I started with Mystical, and you helped a lot, but from very next round I started with M but I use switching game. I try to have T-skill when staying on a level and M-skill when leveling up. I'm not saying it is better and for sure it is more riskier but I'm doing fine with it, at least I think I do :)
once I had LS+4T for the first dragon missing just 2 or 3 skill events reaching level 12.

P.S.
what are the odds with LS+3 and LS+4?
Thanks!

P.P.S.
can this be a sticky? Nuke, TMO?
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Postby Dazhbog on Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:36 am

Yes, thanks, HotShot! I would like to add that to get the necessary player kills (which is, indeed, the hardest part) it helps to go to level 9 as soon as you're ready (200k/1m minimum advisable equipment). Level 9 is not nearly as bad as people think it is.
Last edited by Dazhbog on Tue May 20, 2008 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sir FB on Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:45 pm

Dazhbog wrote:Yes, thanks, HotShot! I would like to add that to get the necessary player kills (which is, indeed, the hardest part) it helps to go to level 9 as soon as you're ready (200k/1mk minimum advisable equipment). Level 9 is not nearly as bad as people think it is.


I still think 9 is horrible for gold. If you're bored tomorrow, do me a favor and keep track of how much gold you earn in your day. If I stay at eight, which I likely will, I'll report the same. It will be unscientific, but a sample nonetheless.
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Postby Dazhbog on Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:56 pm

Barring a bank double, tomorrow will be dicey for me because I went to 9 with less than my minimum recommended equipment. I am sure, though, that I make more money there with 1m/1m than on 8 with equal equipment. It's all about knowing the monsters and taking on a little extra risk for good potential reward. But really, with the mystical strategy, I only recommend going to 9 on the first run up for the player kills. I hardly ever spend time on 9 on subsequent runs up, because usually by the time I get 1m/1m, I have the experience for 12. On subsequent runs up, you also won't have nearly as much time to beef up your defense with gems, which will make 9 a bit tougher. I've had two successful tower rescues so far this round and am playing as a mage, which means all my gems have gone into defense, so I'm not *too* worried about being on 9 with 400k/200k. No, it's not going to be fun if I don't get that immediate bank double, but I bet you I will survive and profit. Really, the key here is not that 9 is a level that with decent equipment is lucrative relative to 8 (although that's true), but that 9 is the best solution to the player kill problem when you start with M skills. Without going to 9, a mystic is almost sure to fall behind the curve on gaining the experience for 12.
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Postby HotShot on Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:36 am

I have never understood how to handle level 9 and don't think I ever will. Everytime I've tried, I made less money. With decent armor, you make about $400-450k gold per day on 8. Can you make that much consistently on 9, factoring in the possibility of an early death?

I'll do LS+3T. LS+4T is just ridiculous - that's an obscene 27 skill points that you can rarely get within the first 20 days of the round, especially since many of them are mystical. I've never managed to get more than 22 or so.

Code: Select all
       100/10   40/10
      -------- ------
base   0.3339  0.0482
hott   0.4676  0.0996
fairy  0.9188  0.6034
h+f    0.9478  0.6971


So it appears LS+3T is better than 5T. Here's the summary of how various equipment fares (worst to best).
LS+1T+4P < LS+2T ~ 4T < 5T < LS+3T
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Postby Ram on Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:58 am

LS + 3 t-skills is asking for a lot of skill events though
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Overall Avg: 2.84 DK / Round | Last 3 Avg: 4.00 DK / Round | Wins: 2
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Postby Dazhbog on Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:59 am

HotShot wrote:I have never understood how to handle level 9 and don't think I ever will. Everytime I've tried, I made less money. With decent armor, you make about $400-450k gold per day on 8. Can you make that much consistently on 9, factoring in the possibility of an early death?


I think I make well over 500k with 1m/1m, but I've never kept exact track and compiled solid proof. And I almost never die in the forest.
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Postby Sir FB on Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:01 am

Dazhbog wrote:Barring a bank double, tomorrow will be dicey for me because I went to 9 with less than my minimum recommended equipment. I am sure, though, that I make more money there with 1m/1m than on 8 with equal equipment. It's all about knowing the monsters and taking on a little extra risk for good potential reward. But really, with the mystical strategy, I only recommend going to 9 on the first run up for the player kills. I hardly ever spend time on 9 on subsequent runs up, because usually by the time I get 1m/1m, I have the experience for 12. On subsequent runs up, you also won't have nearly as much time to beef up your defense with gems, which will make 9 a bit tougher. I've had two successful tower rescues so far this round and am playing as a mage, which means all my gems have gone into defense, so I'm not *too* worried about being on 9 with 400k/200k. No, it's not going to be fun if I don't get that immediate bank double, but I bet you I will survive and profit. Really, the key here is not that 9 is a level that with decent equipment is lucrative relative to 8 (although that's true), but that 9 is the best solution to the player kill problem when you start with M skills. Without going to 9, a mystic is almost sure to fall behind the curve on gaining the experience for 12.


I have the distinctive feeling you will be killed in the forest tomorrow. :)!
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Postby Dazhbog on Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:39 am

And you were completely wrong. I had an awesome day for the second day in a row. It was slightly dicey for a while. I used my pinches well, and used disappear twice (I also used gift). But I had another fairy event early on and tried to catch a fairy thinking I might find the DCT. Then I did, so I switched to thieving and robbed the bank. I didn't get my bank double, but I ended the day with 400k/1m and 450k in the bank. Maybe tomorrow I'll keep track of earnings from forest monsters. They were not half bad today, and the bank robbery was by no means stellar for level 9 (under 500k)--but of course it was still a big help. Today I faced many pink elephants and some hemo-globs, plus the usual Ernest Browns and Frankenmooses. I pinched Earthshaker to death a couple times. I did quite well.

Edit: By the way, I just did a little calculating and figured out that I have used precisely 80 gems to gain an extra 40 defense. I knew I'd done fairly well with gems but hadn't been sure I'd done quite that well. I *thought* most of the monsters seemed wimpier than usual after I upgraded to full body armor. It was only two particularly scary powermoves that led me to use disappear (and one was before the upgrade).
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Postby tikel on Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:24 am

HotShot wrote:I have never understood how to handle level 9 and don't think I ever will. Everytime I've tried, I made less money. With decent armor, you make about $400-450k gold per day on 8. Can you make that much consistently on 9, factoring in the possibility of an early death?

I'll do LS+3T. LS+4T is just ridiculous - that's an obscene 27 skill points that you can rarely get within the first 20 days of the round, especially since many of them are mystical. I've never managed to get more than 22 or so.


thanks HotShot.
as for the skills, I once had LS+4(T) on the first DK but I was stuck for a while on 12 level so I suppose that it was more then 20 days where I got few of t-skill events, and I still needed 40/10 and a fairy for a kill. for the first DK I missed only 3 of skill events. in theory you only need to pass one mystical event to get a LS if you carful(lucky) enough to change skills when leveling up.
for now I have had 6 successful skill events (that includes both mystical and thief). as I'm a level 8 that means that I should have LS+2T at least if I remember to change to mystical before leveling up to 12.

edit: just to have it on one page.

40/10 +50 defense.

Code: Select all
      LS+1T+4P  LS+2T LS+3T  4T     5T
      -------- ------ ------ ------ ------
base   0.0037  0.0105 0.0482 0.0150 0.0222
hott   0.0131  0.0270 0.0996 0.0328 0.0530
fairy  0.2990  0.3452 0.6034 0.3351 0.5233
h+f    0.4007  0.4426 0.6971 0.4025 0.6004


100/10 +50 defense
Code: Select all
      LS+1T+4P  LS+2T LS+3T  4T     5T
      -------- ------ ------ ------ ------
base   0.0636  0.1057 0.3339 0.1134 0.1129
hott   0.1385  0.1886 0.4676 0.2004 0.2015
fairy  0.7220  0.7422 0.9188 0.7656 0.7713
h+f    0.8036  0.8162 0.9478 0.8125 0.8184
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Re: How to start with mystical

Postby snapdragon on Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:57 am

When you have 5T, and what point should you switch off Mystical to D?
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Re: How to start with mystical

Postby injektilo on Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:07 am

snapdragon wrote:When you have 5T, and what point should you switch off Mystical to D?

If you have 5T, do you mean when should you change to mystical skills?

You should never need to change to D unless you have maxed out both T and M skills.
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Re: How to start with mystical

Postby snapdragon on Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:24 am

injektilo wrote:
snapdragon wrote:When you have 5T, and what point should you switch off Mystical to D?

If you have 5T, do you mean when should you change to mystical skills?

You should never need to change to D unless you have maxed out both T and M skills.


that answers my question. just max out M
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